A conversation between Kathleen Soriano, Director of Exhibitions at the Royal Academy of Arts and Steven Eastwood.
KS: Have you given up your own studio for the duration of Laboratory?
SE: I go there to collect post, but otherwise this has been my functional studio space. I instantly felt able to work here, even during the installation phase of Laboratory. Compared to the other artists I think it’s easier for a film maker to uproot and relocate quite quickly – as long as I’ve got my ability to edit and research nothing really changes.
The process of film making is about research and development, and then you execute those ideas quite late on in the process. Everything you see here at the moment is just research.
I suppose I have a methodology that I’ve been working with for a while, which involves looking for existing events or contexts where things are already happening, and then I bring to bear on those contexts ideas that I’m already working with. I don’t come in with a documentary ‘arm’, I come in and try and do something that’s based on events that are already taking place.
For Laboratory, I proposed to use the locality of Jerwood Space as part of my work but there were some research lines that weren’t fruitful; for example, the osteopath wasn’t able to contribute as he was restrained by complicated ethics committees, which is an issue I run up against quite often.
KS: Do you think there is something about film making that means you have to think faster and is more about cutting stuff away – so it allows you the freedom to make lots of different things?
SE: I think that depends on the project you’re working on. The typical film making process involves shooting lots of material – much more than you need – so you get coverage and then have choices. For this project I’m working in a different way, accepting the specific limitations. I’m going to mimic the round structure of a boxing fight, which is ten 3-minute durations.
KS: I love the spectacle of boxing. It’s almost like a stage play, it’s not the violence but the drama of the fight.
SE: That’s the difference between amateur and professional boxers. Amateur boxing is much more about scoring points but professional boxers have very established personas they work with, which they adopt in the ring. But this ‘celebrity status’ aspect can be frustrating as they are trained athletes but depend on marketing and managing professionals to network and get fights. So they can easily miss opportunities if they are badly managed.
KS: That doesn’t sound so far away from the relationship between artist and dealer – that problem of how you attain value.
SE: No, that’s absolutely right. There are only 11 professional women boxers in this country, so they often have to travel quite far afield to find an opponent of a suitable weight.
KS: So you’ve discovered all this since you started here?
SE: I’m on a very steep learning curve! I’ve previously made some drift-based films where I had no specific content in mind. So I had this locality and discourse, which was to do with injury and trauma. So I was using this discourse to notice things. So naturally I sought out boxing rings in the area and found The British School of Osteopathy. Before starting this project I didn’t have any knowledge or big feelings about boxing and certainly had no knowledge about women’s boxing. Rooneys Gym has been very open and accepting and the owner likes the way I approach working with people.
For a couple of days, I got caught on the tidal wave of Angel; her compelling character and public persona. I can’t stand the television-style standard documentary centred on one compelling character, usually an eccentric, and follows them around – showing them warts and all. I don’t approach moving image in that way but Angel is somebody that offers all those things – providing lots of rich material. But it’s not about her and it doesn’t relate to the discourse that I find interesting.
KS: Your work is interesting in that it requires you to get out and about. How many hours do you spend here in the gallery?
SE: I spend about a third of each day here, and I’m outside the rest of the day. I come back here to re-group and watch what I’ve recorded. The whole room has become a thinking space. I’ve tended to put up short sequences to see what they’re doing.
KS: Do you think you’re not encountering as many visitors as the other artists are here, and are therefore free from the constant judgement and assessment of the public?
SE: I’m also protected a bit as it’s a darkened space at the end of the building and is somehow less public. But because my work is about engaging with people I don’t know I really like it when people do come into the space and I often ask them if they have any questions; it doesn’t really interrupt my flow of work. In fact I see it as a vital part of my process. I sometimes need to be protected from the indulgence of my own ideas; the more you talk the more you refine your thoughts and ideas come.
KS: Do you think the work you have created is different to what you could have created in your own studio?
SE: Yes, definitely and I hope that I can take some of this experience back to my studio. Film makers can be studio based and I do tend to do a lot of writing; my ideas are largely academic and text based – sometimes to the detriment of the work.
KS: Do you feel a sense of responsibility being in this gallery space, as an artist whose practice is very different from the other artists, to have an educative element to what you do – a need to explain?
SE: No, I’ve not felt that at all.
KS: Has the Angel interlude been a distraction or is it just part of your ‘drift’?
SE: I think I’m in the middle of answering that question. Two days ago I felt overloaded and I couldn’t see where this project was going, but I keep coming back to my formal structure, which saves me from getting caught up.
I’m trying to find ways of approaching Angel and Marianne as subjects, without depicting them directly; without interviewing them or presenting a narrated back-story. One format is the song; factual subjects don’t tend to sing about their lives. The other is the osteopathy relationship; osteopaths use a number of different ways of talking to and physically manipulating their clients in an attempt to understand them. Another format is the trainer-fighter relationship; the off-camera voice which is constantly calling out directions. These three formal elements stop me from getting too caught up in the personas.
KS: Did you have an end-product in mind when you came in?
SE: I thought I would make a series of vignettes, starting points, for a film that would be made at a later date. I thought it would be much more open and not specific to one context, so I’ve changed my ideas. I’ve identified a structure for 10 short films, some of which might not work.
KS: It’s interesting that you all seem to have identified an end-product; even though Laboratory is supposed to be about process.
SE: I think we all see this as something that is borne of this particular context. The sense of camaraderie, support, direct contact with the curator – this is a unique moment in time that can’t easily be continued outside of this context. This is also why I think we have to remain playful with the concept of what a laboratory is. A real laboratory is so different to this; a fixed period of research, economic considerations, and certainly not being watched publicly.
I also think there’s a sense of wanting to produce a significant piece of work in the Jerwood Space, to maximize this opportunity. I had more anxiety about three weeks before the show and because of the nature of the show I didn’t want to do too much preparatory work before the it began, but I feel quite loose now. I don’t think I’d ever have allowed myself to write a torch song, which I wrote with the help of Peter (Wilkinson) who works at the Jerwood.
KS: It seems that this looseness allows a freedom.
SW: They are under no pressure from us at Jerwood to produce final work but the artists have been talking to each other about what they are planning to do before the show ends.
SE: Something we touched on in our ‘crit’ we had last week was criticism and the notion of criticism. What is the relationship between criticism and Laboratory? As an artist you decide whether things are ready for criticism, whereas here you are inviting criticism when it’s still in development. I’m hoping there’ll be a phase of criticism in the next week, to help me refine ideas – I enjoy the process of rigorous questioning.



A conversation between Kathleen Soriano, Director of Exhibitions at the Royal Academy of Arts and Jock Mooney.

KS: You’re creating an installation in the space, is that something you always planned to do?
JM: The trestles are from a past work and they are being formed into a music video. It is now becoming more of a landscape piece. Not being happy with the sculpture just staying static, experimentation became key to changing its layout. It was part of a plan, but the only problem was that it bore resemblance to a past work; it could be made to look ‘nice’. But I think I just wanted to have a piece of work that I didn’t have full control over. I admire Mia’s work in that very few marks are used to make a final piece and she has the confidence to hold back. I have a problem of not knowing when work is finished and being able to walk away. The confidence to make work and be happy with the result has become easier in this space. The element of distraction is key to creating quick works, either with music or talking to someone on the phone; doodles can become works but can never be created while under full concentration.
KS: It’s interesting that you’re questioning what you produce and what your work is in this gallery.
JM: I usually work from home in a spare room. Some works just end up being framed to protect them. In this space it’s more open to be able to explore finished works.
KS: Have a lot of people talked to you while working?
JM: Some people are quite timid as you would expect, and it’s nice to see people working themselves up to come over and talk. It’s what’s so enjoyable about working in a public gallery. Using bright colours the work tends to engage a broad range of people.
KS: Do you feel a sense of constant judging by the public?
JM: Definitely. There are a couple of drawings that I did while feeling quite frustrated over the small scale drawings. After 45 minutes I produced a tree on a large roll of paper that was embarrassing enough to be scrunched up and thrown away. After some discussion with Sarah [Williams] later the tree was brought back as part of showing the public all the work – whether or not it is deemed good. It can feel like that the public are cheated if the artist constantly vets his own work especially in this type of exhibition.
KS: What about performance, do you feel as if you have crossed a line?
JM: I’ve done more controlled performances in the past. The raised floor could be deemed as a stage, and pouring the paint over models in a dramatic fashion when some music is playing could be interpreted as a performance piece. The experience has been surreal overall.
KS: Do you think the actual physical gallery space has changed your work?
JM: It’s nice to have so much space and its good to develop work in what is a nice white cube gallery. It changes the perspective and allows room for more experimentation. It’s interesting from a commercial aspect and the release from having that obligation, which may potentially compromise my creativity.
KS: Do you feel a sense of peer pressure?
JM: Yes, I did initially feel the pressure to have finished work on display, but now I’ve completely relaxed into it.
KS: Have you found the questioning helpful?
JM: Talking to someone else about my work has definitely helped me liven-up and let go of self-questioning – freeing me up to make new work.



A conversation between Kathleen Soriano, Director of Exhibitions at the Royal Academy of Arts and Mia Taylor.

KS: It must be difficult to have your practise exposed like this? Did you know that you were going to construct these screened sections?
MT: My original proposal was about blurring and abstraction. This is such a large gallery space and I wanted to play with the way that it is organised but I also wanted to be protected at times. I thought it was interesting to use the screens as a way of guiding visitors through the space as well as isolating details of the building’s structure because I think it is challenging to show paintings in such an architectural space. I can play around, areas can be broken up to be smaller and more intimate, and I can also organise and explore space.
KS: Has your work been affected by being in this gallery?
MT: Yes and no. I’ve never had the opportunity or confidence to work like this. It had always been the intention that the work would become linked with the space and work with the architecture. I’ve tried not to make a private area to work.
KS: Thinking about the balance between public and private, what balance has there been between the art and the experience?
MT: The work and experience overlap, I’m not sure they are separate. With public access their comments become part of the work and they are the experience. Along with all the collaborators they are the work but also carry the experience.
KS: It feels as if your work has become wrapped up into the fabric of this gallery, how will your work change after this month?
MT: The idea of going back to my studio feels strange. Before I started here I was looking to shift things in my practise and now I have a practical idea of how I can do that and move forward in the future. I’ve been thinking that it would be interesting to give up my studio for a while and perhaps work in different environments and other public spaces.
KS: Is it the architecture or the people that affect the work the most?
MT: The architecture is elemental in forming the work. Perhaps the people have not been thought so much about – even though the work is made for their viewing. Possibly it is less about the people but I’m still unsure about that. The public are forced to move through the space that has been dictated by the work and they form an intrinsic part of the gallery, but the work is not out there to disrupt or engage the public from their daily routine.
KS: What about the performance side of the exhibition?
MT: There is a performing and non-performing aspect of being here. When the public is present there is a performance element and a subconscious act is taking place but it is unlike any planned performance. I’m deliberately conscious of not being conscious of my movements.
KS: Do you feel judged or are you aware of the constant appraisal by the public?
MT: In a way it has increased my confidence and there’s an opportunity to really explore. There is a certain amount of freedom and possibility here, whereas my studio can feel more confined. Ideas that are repressed in the studio can be explored more openly in this open gallery. There is something about exposing ideas in a public place that may be crass; it’s very liberating in a sense that there may or may not be any comeback – but it is fine to experiment.
KS: This show feels like a departure from a smooth career plan – a sharp break that allows you to analyse your work and acts as a base for new creative opportunities and challenges in the future.
MT: This show was an opportunity for someone without a track record to try something new.



See photos from the Laboratory closing part at: www.jvalab.co.uk
Finally! Our work for Jerwood space: Laboratory is up on our blog. Go check it out here: http://bit.ly/T5DVd #thepartners
JVA Lab Closing Party
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On 28 August, Sarah and I discussed the work that the 3 artists had presented for the closing party of ‘Laboratory’ – what the artworks meant to us and also how the practices of the artists could develop in the future (the latter wasn’t just driven by our egos by the way… the artists asked us for some feedback too, honest….)
Here is what we thought…
Mia Taylor
Mia’s work in ‘Laboratory’ shows how she has responded to the architecture of Gallery 1 – a busy thoroughfare for visitors with a mixture of walls, glass screens and pillars. Her practice has constantly shifted between painting on canvas and working with the space that surrounds her, always informed by her interest in fragmentation, indeterminacy and multiplicity. Importantly, individual pieces can also be seen as integral parts of a wider series, as Mia has incorporated details of architecture into the paintings and then describing that detail back into the surrounding wall, floor and ceiling areas. The wall-based pieces are arranged in a series of visual jumps: a hazy, indeterminate mountainscape is adjacent to a protruding cone of tissue paper (see below); two gesturally-drawn paintings are separated by a screen that prevents both being easily seen at the same time; a canvas wrapped in semi-opaque plastic with a clear vertical stripe hangs next to another with horizontal fringing collaged across its middle.
The other elements she has created – the ribbons of colour hanging from the ceiling supports, the canvas block that has replaced a brick in the floor, the semi-opaque screens – all show a lightness of touch that, initially, seems like an intervention undertaken in a fairly non-committal way. In aggregate though, these elements have a marked impact on the space – both how it looks and how visitors navigate through it. To us this shows an increasing confidence to work out the links between the architecture of the space and her painting practice and tie that into a coherent installation on which she has stamped her artistic identity. Working with a difficult space appears to suit Mia’s practice well.
The one collaborative piece in Mia’s space is the low-tech science fiction film (see above) produced with Alex Schady, which can be seen on first entering Jerwood Space. Shot in various locations in and around the gallery, the film features a home-made spaceship and orbiting planets set to a soundtrack of audio found on the internet and with dialogue, spoken by Mia, taken from the garbled text that resulted from an interview between her and Pryle that was (as was mentioned earlier in the blog) wildly mistranscribed by some voice recognition software. The film is inventive and amusing, but has a different aesthetic to the other works. Like them, the film takes its cue from the surrounding architecture and includes footage taken in Mia’s gallery space during the show, but the other pieces on display have a number of minutely considered links that weave them strongly together, while the outside references of the film set it apart. Exhibitions of Mia’s work in the future could easily concentrate on her output alone.
Jock Mooney
Jock’s gallery is a mixture of intensely-coloured miniatures and big, gestural drawings. The much-discussed drying rack has been reassembled and sits in a prominent position facing you as you walk into the space. On it are a riotous cast of objects and characters: trees, blobs, flowers, busts (in both senses of the word), a cartoony dog biscuit and a cat simultaneously vomiting and crapping. Hundreds of hand-drawn wasps (see below) swirl and swarm in a high corner of the space (and even invade the neighbouring toilets) and a link is formed across the gallery to their nest – bundled up pieces of cut-up paper on which the wasps were originally drawn – stuffed in the gap between a wall panel and the slanted ceiling. Apart from a trio of errant wasps, one long wall is animated solely by a small painting on wood – the piece that Jock said felt like a departure from anything he had tried before (see below).
Two huge new drawings, made on paper roughly torn from a large roll, are draped from the central ceiling support (see below). These are direct descendants from the quickly-executed drawings that Jock binned and then resurrected earlier in the show (showing that those earlier drawings proved not to be a dead end). A large pseudo-canvas (made from a piece of jettisoned cardboard) contains a loosely-drawn amalgam of a mountain (or is it a trifle?), a head, a cottage, broken lines and words. This is hung at right angles to a minutely-detailed wreath painstakingly constructed from hand-drawn fingers, entrails, masked figures, a house and a sofa, all seemingly quoted from the 70s horror movies and 60s counterculture comic books that inform Jock’s work.
The dialogue between large and small, minutely-executed and freely-drawn, two-dimensional and three-dimensional, nearness and distance is the most impressive element of his final presentation. Jock definitely needs large spaces to play in. It is interesting too that, although ‘Laboratory’ has been focused on the processes involved in creating art, the final presentations in each gallery evolved into something approaching a ‘finished’ exhibition. With Jock’s work the importance of keeping a sense of process on display seems more important though. The fragile cluster of hand-made leaves that sits in the middle of the space, the sculpture mounted on a four-wheeled trolley and the paint-splattered rack all speak of temporariness (with this in mind, perhaps the floor drips underneath the rack should have been retained too?). A major part of these works is their overt mutability – it is apparent that they can be moulded and changed at any point to produce new and powerful incarnations.
Steven Eastwood
Steven’s space is dominated by a twin-screen projection, provisionally titled The Hiss of the Blow, focusing on Marianne and Angel, two boxers that he met at a nearby boxing gym whilst researching the locality around Jerwood Space. The two protagonists skip, hit punch bags and shadow box in front of the camera, while at one point the pace slows and the atmosphere becomes more melancholic as Angel (who is also a songwriter), sings a cappella lyrics written by her and Steven. In a corner of the gallery is a diminutive monitor sitting casually inside its soft-sided carrying case (see below), which shows a DVD of Steven filming a bout of sparring between Angel and Marianne on a hand-held camera, before he then steps into the ring to spar with (and get well and truly hit by) Marianne.
Boxing is a seductive mix of grace, skill, power, violence and pain. The projections are engaging and visceral invocations of boxing and inevitably suggest comparisons with other filmic depictions – from Raging Bull to Million Dollar Baby – a long and illustrious history that inevitably affects the reading of any new work in the genre. (It’s also worth noting that Rooney’s gym is frequently a filming location for music videos too.) The Hiss of the Blow is divided into 2 minute segments, reflecting that matches are divided into 2 minute rounds for female boxers, and this formal device allows Steven to collage together a range of different techniques, mixing static camera positions with frenetic, staccato footage recorded using a hand-held camera whilst inside the boxing ring during a sparring bout (as seen from a different viewpoint in the video shown on the monitor).
The video piece displayed on the monitor has less polished production values – showing minimally edited footage taken from a fixed camera position – but is in some ways more immediate and more engaging for it. The formal differences between the videos are reinforced by the differing ways that the works are presented: one is projected onto a screen, so will inevitably seem more cinematic, while the other is presented more casually on a monitor still within its carrying case, so will seem more provisional and personal. The monitor work has an evocative contrast between the poised and balletic sparring partners and the slightly awkward movements of the artist ducking in and recoiling back from the action. The artist putting himself in the ring seems like a statement that he is being more involved, less aloof and dictatorial than an archetypal movie director. The artist becomes even more fragile when the sparring between Marianne and himself starts (see below); he is at the mercy of his subject rather than the other way around (although not wearing any protective headgear makes him simultaneously seems braver as well).
This work recalls one of Andy Kaufman’s regular routines that involved him fighting with female wrestlers and it has that same dialogue of man vs woman but amateur vs professional as well. There are also hints of the more extreme works of Chris Burden, who was once filmed while being shot in the arm with a rifle. This is the artist letting himself suffer pain – and possibly scarring – for his art.

Cool: Oct 5, 2009: Contemporary Grotowski at Jerwood Space: Contemporary Grotowski A rare opportunity to ex.. http://twurl.nl/bkns02
The ever-evolving catalogue: An unusual show is currently taking place at the Jerwood Space in London: three.. http://bit.ly/3fvo5B
The ever-evolving catalogue: An unusual show is currently taking place at the Jerwood Space in London: three.. http://bit.ly/3fvo5B
The Partners new work on CRblog: RT @CreativeReview: The ever-evolving catalogue at Jerwood Space: http://bit.ly/zyT2J #thepartners
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